Create tooltip accessibles

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Create tooltip accessibles

Aaron Leventhal-3
Are tooltip accessible objects useful?

I would prefer to put the tooltip text into the accessible
name (or description if there is already a name), rather
than create an accessible object for it.

For the use case of speaking what gets hovered over by the
mouse, it's better to use the name and description anyway,
because:
1) it's available faster than a tooltip, which only comes up
after a pause and
2) it is a superset of the text available to name/describe
an object. The tooltip doesn't cover everything anyway, so
the name/description still has to be consulted.

Is there any legit usecase for tooltip accessible objects?

- Aaron
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Re: Create tooltip accessibles

Peter Korn-2
Hi Aaron,

Magnifier/reader products (think ZoomText) may want to speak them.  Also
solutions for folks with cognitive impairments...  I think they are useful.


Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Are tooltip accessible objects useful?
>
> I would prefer to put the tooltip text into the accessible name (or
> description if there is already a name), rather than create an
> accessible object for it.
>
> For the use case of speaking what gets hovered over by the mouse, it's
> better to use the name and description anyway, because:
> 1) it's available faster than a tooltip, which only comes up after a
> pause and
> 2) it is a superset of the text available to name/describe an object.
> The tooltip doesn't cover everything anyway, so the name/description
> still has to be consulted.
>
> Is there any legit usecase for tooltip accessible objects?
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility

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Re: Create tooltip accessibles

Aaron Leventhal-3
Okay to everything that's been said so far.

In some cases (toolbarbuttons often are like this), we have nothing but
the tooltiptext to base the accessible name on. In that case I think we
would but the tooltiptext in the accessible name and leave the
description blank.

Does that sound right?

- Aaron


Bill Haneman wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 21:02, Peter Korn wrote:
>  
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> Magnifier/reader products (think ZoomText) may want to speak them.  Also
>> solutions for folks with cognitive impairments...  I think they are useful.
>>    
>
> Agreed.  The tooltips should be exposed as objects (toplevel windows
> that come and go as they are posted/unposted, currently) for consistency
> with gtk+ and java ATK practice.  They should have ROLE_TOOL_TIP I
> believe.  It's a good idea to allow them to be turned off, to reduce
> noise (there's possibly a desktop-wide gconf key or xsetting for this,
> in which case it would be extra helpful if mozilla honored it).
>
> It's also our practice in the Java and Gnome worlds to use the tooltip
> text as an object's accessible description (atk_object_get_description)
> in the absence of an explicitly set accessible-description property.  It
> would be best to adhere to that convention in mozilla I think.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill
>
>  
>> Peter Korn
>> Accessibility Architect,
>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>    
>>> Are tooltip accessible objects useful?
>>>
>>> I would prefer to put the tooltip text into the accessible name (or
>>> description if there is already a name), rather than create an
>>> accessible object for it.
>>>
>>> For the use case of speaking what gets hovered over by the mouse, it's
>>> better to use the name and description anyway, because:
>>> 1) it's available faster than a tooltip, which only comes up after a
>>> pause and
>>> 2) it is a superset of the text available to name/describe an object.
>>> The tooltip doesn't cover everything anyway, so the name/description
>>> still has to be consulted.
>>>
>>> Is there any legit usecase for tooltip accessible objects?
>>>
>>> - Aaron
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>      
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>    
>
>
>  
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Re: Create tooltip accessibles

Peter Korn-2
Hi Aaron,

I believe our convention has been to leave the name blank and keep to
using tooltips for descriptions.  Then it is AT logic to deal with a
blank name.  This also means that toolkit logic is simplified, and it is
up to the app to set the name appropriately.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Okay to everything that's been said so far.
>
> In some cases (toolbarbuttons often are like this), we have nothing
> but the tooltiptext to base the accessible name on. In that case I
> think we would but the tooltiptext in the accessible name and leave
> the description blank.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> - Aaron
>
>
> Bill Haneman wrote:
>> On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 21:02, Peter Korn wrote:
>>  
>>> Hi Aaron,
>>>
>>> Magnifier/reader products (think ZoomText) may want to speak them.  
>>> Also solutions for folks with cognitive impairments...  I think they
>>> are useful.
>>>    
>>
>> Agreed.  The tooltips should be exposed as objects (toplevel windows
>> that come and go as they are posted/unposted, currently) for consistency
>> with gtk+ and java ATK practice.  They should have ROLE_TOOL_TIP I
>> believe.  It's a good idea to allow them to be turned off, to reduce
>> noise (there's possibly a desktop-wide gconf key or xsetting for this,
>> in which case it would be extra helpful if mozilla honored it).
>>
>> It's also our practice in the Java and Gnome worlds to use the tooltip
>> text as an object's accessible description (atk_object_get_description)
>> in the absence of an explicitly set accessible-description property.  It
>> would be best to adhere to that convention in mozilla I think.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>  
>>> Peter Korn
>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>    
>>>> Are tooltip accessible objects useful?
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to put the tooltip text into the accessible name (or
>>>> description if there is already a name), rather than create an
>>>> accessible object for it.
>>>>
>>>> For the use case of speaking what gets hovered over by the mouse,
>>>> it's better to use the name and description anyway, because:
>>>> 1) it's available faster than a tooltip, which only comes up after
>>>> a pause and
>>>> 2) it is a superset of the text available to name/describe an
>>>> object. The tooltip doesn't cover everything anyway, so the
>>>> name/description still has to be consulted.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any legit usecase for tooltip accessible objects?
>>>>
>>>> - Aaron
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>>      
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>    
>>
>>
>>  

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