Chromecast

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Chromecast

Robert O'Callahan-3
This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?

Rob
--
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stiheer :p atroa lsyazye,d  'mYaonu,r  "sGients  uapr,e  tfaokreg iyvoeunr,
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Re: Chromecast

Philip Chee
On 26/07/2013 13:42, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>
> Rob

I don't know anything about Chromecast but this review:
<http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-media-receivers/google-chromecast/4505-6739_7-35823617.html>

says that "you'll need to have your home Wi-Fi password handy"

Phil

--
Philip Chee <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
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Re: Chromecast

Ehsan Akhgari
In reply to this post by Robert O'Callahan-3
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Robert O'Callahan <[hidden email]>wrote:

> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>

Is this API exposed to Web content?  My impression from reading about this
was that the Chrome side software is a browser extension which can mirror
any web site to Chromecast.

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Re: Chromecast

beltzner
Is the API open, and if so, decently built? Being able to broadcast from a
client to a larger, mirrored display is a pretty strong use case in the
general sense, and could be useful for Firefox as well as FirefoxOS. It's
not likely that Mozilla will be building their own display device (native
or dongle) but being able to use AppleTV or Chromecast from within our
software seems desireable, assuming the underlying APIs are consistent with
our approach and mission.

cheers,
mike

On Friday, July 26, 2013, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Robert O'Callahan <[hidden email]<javascript:;>
> >wrote:
>
> > This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
> > desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
> > side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
> > TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
> >
>
> Is this API exposed to Web content?  My impression from reading about this
> was that the Chrome side software is a browser extension which can mirror
> any web site to Chromecast.
>
> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-planning mailing list
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
>
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Re: Chromecast

Ehsan Akhgari
Hmm, I did a bit more digging, and this seems to be the "Sender" API (which
AFAICT is the API that lets you stream content from a web page): <
https://developers.google.com/cast/chrome_sender>

This is currently a Chrome Apps API, which means no to the "Is the API
open" question.  After taking a quick look at the API, I'd also answer no
to "Is the API decent" question.  The API seems to be tailored quite
specifically to Chromecast, and it would be tricky to use the same API for
other similar devices.  In other words, this doesn't seem like the kind of
API which different manufacturers and browser vendors would like to support
to make this use case possible on a range of different streaming devices.
This is all my first impression of course.

Cheers,

--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>


On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:19 AM, beltzner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is the API open, and if so, decently built? Being able to broadcast from a
> client to a larger, mirrored display is a pretty strong use case in the
> general sense, and could be useful for Firefox as well as FirefoxOS. It's
> not likely that Mozilla will be building their own display device (native
> or dongle) but being able to use AppleTV or Chromecast from within our
> software seems desireable, assuming the underlying APIs are consistent with
> our approach and mission.
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
>
> On Friday, July 26, 2013, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Robert O'Callahan <[hidden email]
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
>> > desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the
>> other
>> > side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
>> > TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>> >
>>
>> Is this API exposed to Web content?  My impression from reading about this
>> was that the Chrome side software is a browser extension which can mirror
>> any web site to Chromecast.
>>
>> --
>> Ehsan
>> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-planning mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
>>
>
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Re: Chromecast

beltzner
Thanks, Ehsan. If that turns out to be the case, I see a couple of options:

1. Ignore it.
2. Try to convince the blink folks that it'll be more useful if they allow
others to leverage it, and then get involved with making it a more decent
or usable API.

Of course, I am but a voice within the crowd ;)

cheers,
mike


On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ehsan Akhgari <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hmm, I did a bit more digging, and this seems to be the "Sender" API
> (which AFAICT is the API that lets you stream content from a web page): <
> https://developers.google.com/cast/chrome_sender>
>
> This is currently a Chrome Apps API, which means no to the "Is the API
> open" question.  After taking a quick look at the API, I'd also answer no
> to "Is the API decent" question.  The API seems to be tailored quite
> specifically to Chromecast, and it would be tricky to use the same API for
> other similar devices.  In other words, this doesn't seem like the kind of
> API which different manufacturers and browser vendors would like to support
> to make this use case possible on a range of different streaming devices.
> This is all my first impression of course.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:19 AM, beltzner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Is the API open, and if so, decently built? Being able to broadcast from
>> a client to a larger, mirrored display is a pretty strong use case in the
>> general sense, and could be useful for Firefox as well as FirefoxOS. It's
>> not likely that Mozilla will be building their own display device (native
>> or dongle) but being able to use AppleTV or Chromecast from within our
>> software seems desireable, assuming the underlying APIs are consistent with
>> our approach and mission.
>>
>> cheers,
>> mike
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 26, 2013, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Robert O'Callahan <[hidden email]
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
>>> > desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the
>>> other
>>> > side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on
>>> the
>>> > TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>>> >
>>>
>>> Is this API exposed to Web content?  My impression from reading about
>>> this
>>> was that the Chrome side software is a browser extension which can mirror
>>> any web site to Chromecast.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ehsan
>>> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-planning mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
>>>
>>
>
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Re: Chromecast

marcosscaceres
In reply to this post by Robert O'Callahan-3
On Friday, July 26, 2013 6:42:19 AM UTC+1, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
>
> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
>
> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
>
> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?


Short of building our own - having the browser do automatic discovery of UPNP/DLNA/Bonjour-capable devices would be nice - and having the ability to send media to renderers would be great. You shouldn't need an API for that - it should just be something that is added to the set of audio/video/images controls in the browser (iOS has supported this for years, I think).

For image galleries (or possibly any media), it might be nice to have some declarative way to group them together (or individually) as sharable.  
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Re: Chromecast

w3c
In reply to this post by Ehsan Akhgari
On Friday, July 26, 2013 2:19:28 PM UTC+1, beltzner wrote:

> Is the API open, and if so, decently built? Being able to broadcast from a
>
> client to a larger, mirrored display is a pretty strong use case in the
>
> general sense, and could be useful for Firefox as well as FirefoxOS. It's
>
> not likely that Mozilla will be building their own display device (native
>
> or dongle) but being able to use AppleTV or Chromecast from within our
>
> software seems desireable, assuming the underlying APIs are consistent with
>
> our approach and mission.
>


There is this work happening at the W3C. It's a protocol agnostic API for connecting to network services:

http://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/

The API looks a little out of shape, but looks like it could be fixed up. I think Opera got this working before they switched to Blink.

See:
http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/network-service-discovery-api-support-in-opera/
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Re: Chromecast

Mounir Lamouri-3
On 26/07/13 16:36, [hidden email] wrote:
> There is this work happening at the W3C. It's a protocol agnostic API for connecting to network services:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/
>
> The API looks a little out of shape, but looks like it could be fixed up. I think Opera got this working before they switched to Blink.
>
> See:
> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/network-service-discovery-api-support-in-opera/

Yes, Network Discovery API is mostly pushed by Opera.

-- Mounir
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Re: Chromecast

Karl Dubost
Mounir Lamouri [2013-07-26T12:39]:
>> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/network-service-discovery-api-support-in-opera/
>
> Yes, Network Discovery API is mostly pushed by Opera.

And some devices makers. I have seen a prototype of a Sony wifi camera which was accessible from the browser wireless and operated by the browser.
It's an interesting and useful API. Maybe it needs to be improved, modified, but in the core principle it is good.

--
Karl Dubost, Mozilla
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/moz

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Re: Chromecast

Anne van Kesteren
In reply to this post by marcosscaceres
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:27 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Short of building our own - having the browser do automatic discovery of UPNP/DLNA/Bonjour-capable devices would be nice - and having the ability to send media to renderers would be great. You shouldn't need an API for that - it should just be something that is added to the set of audio/video/images controls in the browser (iOS has supported this for years, I think).

That's a good initial step, but you want an API as well eventually so
developers can implement more compelling controls, e.g. playing a set
of videos in a sequence. Being able to use the TV as display would be
even better of course.


--
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Re: Chromecast

Karl Dubost
In reply to this post by Philip Chee

Related to this thread
http://blog.gtvhacker.com/2013/chromecast-exploiting-the-newest-device-by-google/

--
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http://www.la-grange.net/karl/moz


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Re: Chromecast

Doug Turner-2
In reply to this post by Robert O'Callahan-3
Not a new idea.  I don't think we need to respond (or can't think of any
reason to, or can't think of anything we can do).

Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>
> Rob
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Re: Chromecast

Mark Finkle-2
In reply to this post by Ehsan Akhgari
----- Original Message -----

> Hmm, I did a bit more digging, and this seems to be the "Sender" API (which
> AFAICT is the API that lets you stream content from a web page): <
> https://developers.google.com/cast/chrome_sender>

> This is currently a Chrome Apps API, which means no to the "Is the API
> open" question. After taking a quick look at the API, I'd also answer no
> to "Is the API decent" question. The API seems to be tailored quite
> specifically to Chromecast, and it would be tricky to use the same API for
> other similar devices. In other words, this doesn't seem like the kind of
> API which different manufacturers and browser vendors would like to support
> to make this use case possible on a range of different streaming devices.
> This is all my first impression of course.

There are also native Android and iOS APIs, but yes, the Sender API is not available to web content. Going deeper, the Chrome for Desktop add-on/app that allows tabs to be mirrored to Chromecast uses another Chrome Apps API (tabCapture) to turn the current tab content into a WebRTC media stream. That stream is then sent to Chromecast, which treats it like a video and displays it on the TV.

Info on tabCapture:
http://updates.html5rocks.com/2012/12/Screensharing-with-WebRTC 
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Re: Chromecast

Nicholas Nethercote
In reply to this post by Robert O'Callahan-3
FWIW, Slate had a positive write-up about it:

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/google_chromecast_review_the_dongle_is_ready_to_take_over_your_tv.html

Nick
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Re: Chromecast

Robert Accettura
I have one. It doesn't suck. It has a narrow task (put internet
content on my tv) and pretty innovative interface (really none of its
own).

Few bugs, but nothing I don't think will improve over time.



On Jul 31, 2013, at 9:13 PM, Nicholas Nethercote <[hidden email]> wrote:

> FWIW, Slate had a positive write-up about it:
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/google_chromecast_review_the_dongle_is_ready_to_take_over_your_tv.html
>
> Nick
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Re: Chromecast

Asa Dotzler-2
In reply to this post by Robert O'Callahan-3
On 7/25/2013 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the other
> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>
> Rob

I don't think we should be responding to Chromecast specifically because
I don't think that's an experience that works very well outside of video
and other TV-like content, but I do think we need to discuss if and how
we respond to the last major piece of glass our users have that we don't
current influence, the TV.

Micosoft and Google are investing a lot in the battle for the living
room TV.

Microsoft has X-Box and latest IE there is actually really good. They've
also got X-box glass, an app that runs on all your mobile devices and
gives you navigation controls and second screen tie-ins with the X-box
app on your big screen. They've got 70-80M living rooms.

Google has Google TV boxes, Google TV built into televisions, and
Android's got Remote Display in 4.2 I think. Do they have other
television initiatives?  What kind of penetration do these initiatives
have?

Apple is a bit harder to read. They have AppleTV which is still moving
pretty slowly and I think most of the AirPlay usage is iTunes content,
not Safari content. Do they have other television initiatives? I heard
rumor of a full TV. They've sold some 13 million AppleTVs.

In addition to the browser vendors, there are also Sony and Nintendo
game consoles (plus newcomers like Ooya) that don't have their own tier
1 browsers. Nintendo has sold 100 million consoles and PlayStation has
70-80 million.

Finally, there are various proprietary browsers built into televisions
and set top boxes that we could probably wipe the floor with.

There are about a quarter of a billion users of just the big three
consoles.

I don't have really good numbers, just what I've picked up in the press,
but it sounds like the biggest targets are in order, 1. the game
consoles. 2. the Smart TVs. 3. dedicated streaming things like roku or
AppleTV, ChromeCast, Dell's Ophelia, and others like the Micromax or MGS
smart sticks.

Karen R can probably say more about this space. She's been digging into
it some over the last months.

- A

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Re: Chromecast

beltzner
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Asa Dotzler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't think we should be responding to Chromecast specifically because I
> don't think that's an experience that works very well outside of video and
> other TV-like content, but I do think we need to discuss if and how we
> respond to the last major piece of glass our users have that we don't
> current influence, the TV.
>

That's a good framework, but I'd encourage you to not think of it solely in
the confines of "TV-like content." Games, weather, image based applications
like Instagram, Pinterest and Facebook ... all these things benefit from a
large display canvas.

In the general sense, the idea of being able to "cast" content onto a
different screen feels like it can be generally useful for web-based
applications. (I'd also encourage you not to think of this within the
confines of a "browser," but rather as a potential function of HTML/JS/CSS
based applications.)

cheers,
mike
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Re: Chromecast

David Humphrey-2
In reply to this post by Asa Dotzler-2
I'm really glad to see this come up, and agree with Asa that it's
something we should be giving thought to in a Mozilla context.

Building Popcorn.js, we worked with a ton of TV, film, and video people,
and the hunger out there for experiences that meld the web and the
big-screen is intense.  I'd also say that these two worlds still don't
know much about each other--it's been humbling to work with so many
film/tv wizards who have no idea how the web works, and for me to learn
so much about their world and technologies. There's a lot we could do
together.

With WebRTC, <video>, the Web Audio API, timed text, and the web
platform, we have an interesting base to at least start experimenting in
this space.  Combine that with Firefox OS, and the ability to build
really compelling second-screen experiences (not just your phone as a
remote control, but content split between your TV and phone/tablet).

I think Mozilla is uniquely situated here to partner with people in this
space, since we won't be seen as wanting to own the entire experience in
the way Apple or Google would (devices, streaming content, networks).

Dave

On 13-08-01 4:59 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote:

> On 7/25/2013 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
>> This looks somewhat scary. It can expose an API to Web sites viewed in
>> desktop Chrome that lets those sites send content to the TV. On the
>> other
>> side, the device itself runs Chrome and displays Chrome-only apps on the
>> TV. Clever tie-in; is it worth doing something about?
>>
>> Rob
>
> I don't think we should be responding to Chromecast specifically
> because I don't think that's an experience that works very well
> outside of video and other TV-like content, but I do think we need to
> discuss if and how we respond to the last major piece of glass our
> users have that we don't current influence, the TV.
>
> Micosoft and Google are investing a lot in the battle for the living
> room TV.
>
> Microsoft has X-Box and latest IE there is actually really good.
> They've also got X-box glass, an app that runs on all your mobile
> devices and gives you navigation controls and second screen tie-ins
> with the X-box app on your big screen. They've got 70-80M living rooms.
>
> Google has Google TV boxes, Google TV built into televisions, and
> Android's got Remote Display in 4.2 I think. Do they have other
> television initiatives?  What kind of penetration do these initiatives
> have?
>
> Apple is a bit harder to read. They have AppleTV which is still moving
> pretty slowly and I think most of the AirPlay usage is iTunes content,
> not Safari content. Do they have other television initiatives? I heard
> rumor of a full TV. They've sold some 13 million AppleTVs.
>
> In addition to the browser vendors, there are also Sony and Nintendo
> game consoles (plus newcomers like Ooya) that don't have their own
> tier 1 browsers. Nintendo has sold 100 million consoles and
> PlayStation has 70-80 million.
>
> Finally, there are various proprietary browsers built into televisions
> and set top boxes that we could probably wipe the floor with.
>
> There are about a quarter of a billion users of just the big three
> consoles.
>
> I don't have really good numbers, just what I've picked up in the
> press, but it sounds like the biggest targets are in order, 1. the
> game consoles. 2. the Smart TVs. 3. dedicated streaming things like
> roku or AppleTV, ChromeCast, Dell's Ophelia, and others like the
> Micromax or MGS smart sticks.
>
> Karen R can probably say more about this space. She's been digging
> into it some over the last months.
>
> - A
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-planning mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning

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Re: Chromecast

Rafael Ebron-2
In reply to this post by beltzner
On 8/2/13 6:57 AM, beltzner wrote:
> <snip>
>
> In the general sense, the idea of being able to "cast" content onto a
> different screen feels like it can be generally useful for web-based
> applications.
The general idea of "casting" to different screens sounds right versus
limiting to just a television. I'd love to be able to cast map or
navigation info and other web content from a phone/tablet to a car screen.

Anywhere, here's a plug for not calling this feature "Netcaster".

-Rafael
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