Can always tell when a new version has been released

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 11:44 AM, responder wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 10:57 AM, WaltS wrote:
>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>
>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>> used to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>
>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
>> don't test them, and update them to work.
>>
> HUH???
>

Are you implying that you don't know what the Aurora and Beta channels are?

The authors of the themes and extensions that don't work with the
Release, don't test them during the Aurora and Beta channel release
cycles, so let's blame Mozilla for Firefox, and Thunderbird for updating
poorly.

Not lumping all authors into that category. :)

--
Fedora 17 (64-bit) KDE 4.9.2
Thunderbird Release
Why are you punishing me for ignoring the rules?

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by F1Com
My bloviated meandering follows what [hidden email] graced us
with on 11/22/2012 7:43 AM:

> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>
>> responder wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>
>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>
>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>> used to.
>>>
>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>
>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>
>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>
>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>> I know that version works.  :-)
>
> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
> all.  I can't blame them.
>
Why not recommend the ESR release for them?

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by F1Com
On 11/22/2012 9:50 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 11/21/2012 11:15 AM On a whim, s|b pounded out on the keyboard
>
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:43:28 -0800, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>
>> No problems here...
>>
>
>  From this thread alone, you're not the majority...
>
> I updated over two dozen workstations on one network, and over half of
> the machines required me to do something that shouldn't be required of
> an average user.  One kept stating "Apply update" in the About dialog,
> even though it stated the version was 17.  Another required 3 tries to
> update even though I launched it with Administrator rights each time.
>
> And no, the Maintenance service doesn't seem to work on Limited user
> accounts, regardless of the claim.  And yet Chrome updates and no one
> ever notices.
>
> The only reason I update this way on network machines is to monitor how
> an "average" machine reacts to updates.  Personally, it's faster for me
> to download the complete file and install it rather than screwing around
> with the poor update mechanism.  And that resolves the frequent firewall
> not registering the new file issue also.
>
>
>
So, you are blaming Firefox for the deficiency of your firewall?
Amazing.  If you would rather use Chrome, by all means do so.  If you
like IE better, USE it.  If you want to use Firefox, then use that.  I
have had VERY few problems with updates.  Some of the more useful
(complex) addons have to be updated to work with new versions.  IF you
don't like that, use some other addon, or don't use addons, or go to a
browser that doesn't allow that kind of addon.  This kind of carping
just doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 12:21 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 9:50 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 11/21/2012 11:15 AM On a whim, s|b pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:43:28 -0800, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>
>>> No problems here...
>>>
>>
>>  From this thread alone, you're not the majority...
>>
>> I updated over two dozen workstations on one network, and over half of
>> the machines required me to do something that shouldn't be required of
>> an average user.  One kept stating "Apply update" in the About dialog,
>> even though it stated the version was 17.  Another required 3 tries to
>> update even though I launched it with Administrator rights each time.
>>
>> And no, the Maintenance service doesn't seem to work on Limited user
>> accounts, regardless of the claim.  And yet Chrome updates and no one
>> ever notices.
>>
>> The only reason I update this way on network machines is to monitor how
>> an "average" machine reacts to updates.  Personally, it's faster for me
>> to download the complete file and install it rather than screwing around
>> with the poor update mechanism.  And that resolves the frequent firewall
>> not registering the new file issue also.
>>
>>
>>
> So, you are blaming Firefox for the deficiency of your firewall?
> Amazing.  If you would rather use Chrome, by all means do so.  If you
> like IE better, USE it.  If you want to use Firefox, then use that.  I
> have had VERY few problems with updates.  Some of the more useful
> (complex) addons have to be updated to work with new versions.  IF you
> don't like that, use some other addon, or don't use addons, or go to a
> browser that doesn't allow that kind of addon.  This kind of carping
> just doesn't make sense to me.
>

+1
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 9:57 AM, WaltS wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> responder wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>
>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>
>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>> used to.
>>>>
>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>
>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>
>>
>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
> don't test them, and update them to work.
>
Oh give me a break!  Firefox don't control those addons.  They don't
write them, USERS do that.  If the addon writers don't update then in 3
months, then they might not work.  So should Firefox stop making
improvements because some addon might not work?  NOT.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
7:57 AM:

> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> responder wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>
>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>
>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>> used to.
>>>>
>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>
>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>
>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>> all.  I can't blame them.
>
> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
> don't test them, and update them to work.
>
Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:

" *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
restore combination of opened tabs and windows."

Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on display.

Major screw-up, imo.

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 11/22/2012 11:15 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what [hidden email] graced us
> with on 11/22/2012 7:43 AM:
>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> responder wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>
>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>
>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>> used to.
>>>>
>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>
>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>
>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update
>> at all.  I can't blame them.
>>
> Why not recommend the ESR release for them?
>
What?  An lose his talking point?  Nawww.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
> 7:57 AM:
>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>
>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>> used to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>
>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>
>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>
>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>
> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>
> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>
> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on display.
>
> Major screw-up, imo.
>
So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I don't,
and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if there was
some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more concerned,
but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only one add-on
(TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the release version
comes out.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
11/22/2012 9:40 AM:

> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
>> 7:57 AM:
>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>
>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>> duly
>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>
>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>
>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>
>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>
>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>
>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>> display.
>>
>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>
> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I don't,
> and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if there was
> some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more concerned,
> but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only one add-on
> (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the release version
> comes out.
>
Did you miss the part:

"However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
release time."

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
On 11/22/2012 11:49 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 11/22/2012 9:40 AM:
>> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
>>> 7:57 AM:
>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>
>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>> update at
>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>
>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>
>>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
>>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>>
>>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
>>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
>>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
>>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>>
>>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
>>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>>> display.
>>>
>>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>>
>> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
>> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I
>> don't, and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if
>> there was some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more
>> concerned, but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only
>> one add-on (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the
>> release version comes out.
>>
> Did you miss the part:
>
> "However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
> what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
> release time."
>
DO you want to try to manage that?  I am sure they would love to have
someone undertake that.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
11/22/2012 10:05 AM:

> On 11/22/2012 11:49 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 11/22/2012 9:40 AM:
>>> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
>>>> 7:57 AM:
>>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear,
>>>>>>>>> sites
>>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along
>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>>> update at
>>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>>
>>>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>>>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>>>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>>>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
>>>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>>>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>>>
>>>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>>>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
>>>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
>>>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
>>>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>>>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>>>
>>>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
>>>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>>>> display.
>>>>
>>>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>>>
>>> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
>>> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I
>>> don't, and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if
>>> there was some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more
>>> concerned, but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only
>>> one add-on (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the
>>> release version comes out.
>>>
>> Did you miss the part:
>>
>> "However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
>> what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
>> release time."
>>
> DO you want to try to manage that?  I am sure they would love to have
> someone undertake that.
>
Cop-out response.

The solution is quite simple, either provide additional testing for said
add-ons or don't put their imprimatur of *Featured* on them.

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 11/22/2012 12:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
> 7:57 AM:
>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>
>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>> used to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>
>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>
>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>
>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>
> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There was a
> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>
> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also includes
> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>
> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on install
> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on display.
>
> Major screw-up, imo.
>

I can agree with that.

I think they only have one reviewer, but I could be wrong. Would not be
the first time, or the last.
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 11/22/2012 01:10 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 11/22/2012 10:05 AM:
>> On 11/22/2012 11:49 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 11/22/2012 9:40 AM:
>>>> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>>>> 11/22/2012
>>>>> 7:57 AM:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear,
>>>>>>>>>> sites
>>>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along
>>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to
>>>>>>>>> normal.
>>>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you
>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>>>> update at
>>>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>>>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>>>>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>>>>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>>>>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There
>>>>> was a
>>>>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>>>>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>>>>
>>>>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>>>>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
>>>>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
>>>>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also
>>>>> includes
>>>>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>>>>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>>>>
>>>>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on
>>>>> install
>>>>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>>>>> display.
>>>>>
>>>>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>>>>
>>>> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
>>>> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I
>>>> don't, and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if
>>>> there was some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more
>>>> concerned, but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only
>>>> one add-on (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the
>>>> release version comes out.
>>>>
>>> Did you miss the part:
>>>
>>> "However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
>>> what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
>>> release time."
>>>
>> DO you want to try to manage that?  I am sure they would love to have
>> someone undertake that.
>>
> Cop-out response.
>
> The solution is quite simple, either provide additional testing for said
> add-ons or don't put their imprimatur of *Featured* on them.
>

I think that is easier said than done, with as many as there are available.

Does Jorge have the time, or a crew?
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 11/22/2012
10:22 AM:

> On 11/22/2012 01:10 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 11/22/2012 10:05 AM:
>>> On 11/22/2012 11:49 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 11/22/2012 9:40 AM:
>>>>> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>>>>> 11/22/2012
>>>>>> 7:57 AM:
>>>>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the
>>>>>>>> keyboard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear,
>>>>>>>>>>> sites
>>>>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along
>>>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to
>>>>>>>>>> normal.
>>>>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with
>>>>>>>>> what I
>>>>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you
>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>>>>> update at
>>>>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>>>>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>>>>>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>>>>>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>>>>>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There
>>>>>> was a
>>>>>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>>>>>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>>>>>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It
>>>>>> includes
>>>>>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab
>>>>>> clicking
>>>>>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also
>>>>>> includes
>>>>>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>>>>>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on
>>>>>> install
>>>>>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>>>>>> display.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>>>>>
>>>>> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
>>>>> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I
>>>>> don't, and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if
>>>>> there was some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more
>>>>> concerned, but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only
>>>>> one add-on (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the
>>>>> release version comes out.
>>>>>
>>>> Did you miss the part:
>>>>
>>>> "However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
>>>> what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
>>>> release time."
>>>>
>>> DO you want to try to manage that?  I am sure they would love to have
>>> someone undertake that.
>>>
>> Cop-out response.
>>
>> The solution is quite simple, either provide additional testing for said
>> add-ons or don't put their imprimatur of *Featured* on them.
>>
>
> I think that is easier said than done, with as many as there are available.
>
> Does Jorge have the time, or a crew?

All I'm suggesting is that, if not, they should change the banner to
something less officious like, say, *Popular*

As an aside, I have the greatest respect for Jorge, Ken, Kris and all
the other Add-on reviewers. They do an outstanding job, imo.

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

jetjock
In reply to this post by responder-2
responder wrote:

> On 11/21/2012 10:13 AM, WaltS wrote:
>
>> On 11/21/2012 10:08 AM, responder wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>
>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>
>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>> used to.
>>>
>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>
>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>> because my
>>> ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts unilaterally
>>> onto everyone else.
>>>
>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>
>>
>> Why not troubleshoot, and find out? Here is a link to Mozilla Support
>> about Firefox is slow.
>>
>> http://mzl.la/PMJRIb
>
>
>
> I do appreciate your interest, but I have been around since the
> beginning of Netscape/Prodigy/Compuserve, etc.
> I've been there and done that.
>
> Why should it be my  task to uncover deficiencies and bugs in an
> ongoing program that perhaps only needed to be updated for security
> purposes. I'm not a programmer and shouldn't have to be on a scavenger
> hunt to make a program that previously worked...continue to work.
> Every time I experience this nonsense, I hear from my wife asking why
> I changed something. Perhaps I'll suggest some of the fixes posted
> here and tell her to figure it out.
>
> Remember, most all the readers and posters on these sites are somewhat
> above the average bear. What about the zillions who barely know how to
> push a button after they've figured out which one to push.
> As result of this nonsense, with each iteration I get calls from all
> my friends that I moved into Firefox asking me what to do. If I did
> this for profit, I would be pleased, but when it is all gratis, not so
> hot.
>
> Enough with the esthetics...let them concentrate on the functionality
> and leave the designing to Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom.
>
+1

--

     >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 11/22/2012 12:10 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 11/22/2012 10:05 AM:
>> On 11/22/2012 11:49 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 11/22/2012 9:40 AM:
>>>> On 11/22/2012 11:26 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>>>> 11/22/2012
>>>>> 7:57 AM:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear,
>>>>>>>>>> sites
>>>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along
>>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to
>>>>>>>>> normal.
>>>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you
>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>>>> update at
>>>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle
>>>>>> they don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special
>>>>> attention to what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's
>>>>> compatibility at release time. I, among others, discovered a severe
>>>>> work-stoppage but with Fx17b and the *Featured* add-on TMP. There
>>>>> was a
>>>>> workaround (using a dev release) that isn't at all clear how to gain
>>>>> access to. Instead, what one get when they view the Add-on site is:
>>>>>
>>>>> " *NEXT VERSION UPDATE WILL BE ON JANUARY 2013*
>>>>> Tab Mix Plus enhances Firefox's tab browsing capabilities. It includes
>>>>> such features as duplicating tabs, controlling tab focus, tab clicking
>>>>> options, undo closed tabs and windows, plus much more. It also
>>>>> includes
>>>>> a full-featured session manager with crash recovery that can save and
>>>>> restore combination of opened tabs and windows."
>>>>>
>>>>> Mozilla should have disabled that added as part of their add-on
>>>>> install
>>>>> testing so that users would at least be able to open their Add-on
>>>>> display.
>>>>>
>>>>> Major screw-up, imo.
>>>>>
>>>> So, if your themes aren't ready, because your job got really busy, FF
>>>> releases should be delayed?  NOT.  BTW, not everyone uses TMP.  I
>>>> don't, and don't see any use for it.  Not a big tab user.  Now if
>>>> there was some kind of a problem with ABP, then I would be a bit more
>>>> concerned, but they I use beta versions, and I have problems with only
>>>> one add-on (TACO with Abine), which holds their updates until the
>>>> release version comes out.
>>>>
>>> Did you miss the part:
>>>
>>> "However, I do believe that Mozilla ought to put special attention to
>>> what they label as "Featured" add-ons to insure it's compatibility at
>>> release time."
>>>
>> DO you want to try to manage that?  I am sure they would love to have
>> someone undertake that.
>>
> Cop-out response.
>
> The solution is quite simple, either provide additional testing for said
> add-ons or don't put their imprimatur of *Featured* on them.
>
Never paid any attention to what was 'featured'..  I wish they would
just build ABP into the main program.  It seems to be the most widely
used of all extensions.

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

responder-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 11:57 AM, WaltS wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 11:44 AM, responder wrote:
>> On 11/22/2012 10:57 AM, WaltS wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>
>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>> duly
>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
>>> don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>
>> HUH???
>>
>
> Are you implying that you don't know what the Aurora and Beta channels are?
>
> The authors of the themes and extensions that don't work with the
> Release, don't test them during the Aurora and Beta channel release
> cycles, so let's blame Mozilla for Firefox, and Thunderbird for updating
> poorly.
>
> Not lumping all authors into that category. :)

I know you may find this difficult to believe, but I imagine there might
be one or two of us on this board who are not into testing and betas.

I'm in the release update channel and I have enough problems updating to
the release channels and am much too old to conquer new frontiers. If I
could have the same Firefox with only security updates, I would be quite
happy..
If that statement voids the warranty in allowing me to continue in this
group, so be it.

Seriously, I only want a solid, reliable browser, much like Mosaic that
I remember from the year one... :)

When a download appears for my release channel , I would assume all the
testers have done their job. and maybe that should include telling the
developers not to effect change for the sake of change.




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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

Ron Hunter
On 11/22/2012 4:25 PM, responder wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 11:57 AM, WaltS wrote:
>> On 11/22/2012 11:44 AM, responder wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2012 10:57 AM, WaltS wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>
>>>>>> responder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I
>>>>>>> duly
>>>>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>>>>> used to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>>>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>>>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>>>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>>>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>>>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>>>>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to
>>>>> update at
>>>>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
>>>> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
>>>> don't test them, and update them to work.
>>>>
>>> HUH???
>>>
>>
>> Are you implying that you don't know what the Aurora and Beta channels
>> are?
>>
>> The authors of the themes and extensions that don't work with the
>> Release, don't test them during the Aurora and Beta channel release
>> cycles, so let's blame Mozilla for Firefox, and Thunderbird for updating
>> poorly.
>>
>> Not lumping all authors into that category. :)
>
> I know you may find this difficult to believe, but I imagine there might
> be one or two of us on this board who are not into testing and betas.
>
> I'm in the release update channel and I have enough problems updating to
> the release channels and am much too old to conquer new frontiers. If I
> could have the same Firefox with only security updates, I would be quite
> happy..
> If that statement voids the warranty in allowing me to continue in this
> group, so be it.
>
> Seriously, I only want a solid, reliable browser, much like Mosaic that
> I remember from the year one... :)
>
> When a download appears for my release channel , I would assume all the
> testers have done their job. and maybe that should include telling the
> developers not to effect change for the sake of change.
>
>
>
>
You tell them.  No one else seems to be getting through to them.  Adding
new features seems a good thing to me, but changing something like
removing the 'send link' from the context menu is something that doesn't
seem to improve the program much, and angers many users.  Things like
moving tabs to the top makes some of the programming easier, so I
understand why they want to do it, but I feel it is illogical, and
divorces the tab from its data, making is confusing.
But if you are expecting a bug free program, forget it.  There ain't no
sech animal!

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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

F1Com
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 7:57 AM On a whim, WaltS pounded out on the keyboard

> On 11/22/2012 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 11/21/2012 9:03 AM On a whim, jetjock pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> responder wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2012 9:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because users have addons being disabled, toolbars disappear, sites
>>>>> don't open any longer, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Silent" updates?  Hasn't happened yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Not only that and I know the loyalist will quickly respond, but I duly
>>>> upgraded to 17 when my reminder popped up.
>>>>
>>>> Besides the inane changes which to me have no logical meaning, the
>>>> single biggest problem I am experiencing is that it slowed down the
>>>> access and loading to an absolute crawl.
>>>> Yes, I have plenty of resources, etc...don't need to go there.
>>>>
>>>> So, I opened the crappy IE 8 and bingo...everything sped along as it
>>>> used to.
>>>>
>>>> Then downgraded to 16.0.2 and within 60 seconds was back to normal.
>>>> Zippy, speedy access and loading.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have the talent to be a developer and I suppose maybe because
>>>> my ego isn't nearly large enough to want to push my thoughts
>>>> unilaterally onto everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> Why, Why, Why???
>>> And yet, there are still folks in this group who just can't understand
>>> why people like me will not jump on the auto-update bandwagon!
>>> We get accused of endangering the entire Internet by not having the
>>> latest and greatest "security" upgrades! Me, I'll stick with what I
>>> know works. That said, I _*am*_ extremely greatfull to all you folks
>>> that do the beta checking of the new releases so when I do update,
>>> I know that version works.  :-)
>>>
>> I get users all the time demanding to have Firefox stop updating.
>> Because of how Firefox updates so poorly, users don't want to update at
>> all.  I can't blame them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Is it how Firefox updates so poorly, or extensions, and themes don't
> work because during the 6 week Aurora cycle, and 6 week Beta cycle they
> don't test them, and update them to work.
>

Firefox.  I've mentioned several times what users get with FF updates.
Nothing "silent" about them.  In fact, they seem to make a big deal
about an update occurring, unlike any other browser.



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Re: Can always tell when a new version has been released

F1Com
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 11/22/2012 10:22 AM On a whim, WaltS pounded out on the keyboard

> On 11/22/2012 01:10 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>
> I think that is easier said than done, with as many as there are available.
>
> Does Jorge have the time, or a crew?

I have users all the time write in stating the "Featured" themes aren't
compatible with the latest releases, in fact most state FF 3 or less!.
I sent an email to Jorge and he said it was because of a "bug".

A lot of good that does users.




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