Can Mozilla survive?

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Can Mozilla survive?

WaltS-3
Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012

"Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
time bomb.

The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669


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or a flag. We are human beings and that is how we need to see and treat
each other. - Justin Sane

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Mr. Man-wai Chang
> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
> time bomb.
> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."

It would be sad to see Firefox go. But Thunderbird should stay... ;)

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Mr. Man-wai Chang
On 11/04/12 11:21 PM, Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>> time bomb.
>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>
> It would be sad to see Firefox go. But Thunderbird should stay... ;)
>

And Thunderbird would want Firefox as its browser plugin? :)

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   @~@   You have the right to remain silence.
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/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686)  Linux 3.3.1
   ^ ^   23:17:01 up 3 days 14:15 0 users load average: 0.06 0.08 0.06
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
7:47 AM:

> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>
> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
> time bomb.
>
> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>
Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Jay Garcia
On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
> 7:47 AM:
>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>
>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>> time bomb.
>>
>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>
> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>

If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
staff thoughts on other subjects:

mozilla.engagement.developers


--
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Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Jay Garcia graced us with on
4/11/2012 9:29 PM:

> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>> 7:47 AM:
>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>
>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>> time bomb.
>>>
>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>
>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>
>
> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>
> mozilla.engagement.developers
>
Thanks, Jay, it's good to know for reference. Most of my time on the
groups anymore are just for casual bloviation and sometime user support.
I think of it as an ex-smoker's escape mechanism replacement. :)

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 4/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>> 7:47 AM:
>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>
>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>> time bomb.
>>>
>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>
>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>
>
> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>
> mozilla.engagement.developers


The threat is from contenders as well.
How about the serious (not so) new contender Maxthon 3?
I have tried it and it's a very fine product.
Check out browser ratings for HTML5 support:

    <http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html>

Interesting how MX3 has sneaked past the other "big" browsers, no?

    <http://www.maxthon.com/mx3/>

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Jay Garcia
On 12.04.2012 03:13, Gus Richter wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 4/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>
>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>> time bomb.
>>>>
>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>
>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>>
>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>
>>
>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>
>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>
>
> The threat is from contenders as well.
> How about the serious (not so) new contender Maxthon 3?
> I have tried it and it's a very fine product.
> Check out browser ratings for HTML5 support:
>
>    <http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html>
>
> Interesting how MX3 has sneaked past the other "big" browsers, no?
>
>    <http://www.maxthon.com/mx3/>
>

The problem is, as I see it, is that all these high-falutin sites have
to try to outdo each other, the result being is more advanced browsers
are necessary. Gone are the days of searching for information presented
in an easy to read format with nothing jumping and twirling, etc. The
more eye candy I have to wade through to get info on a  product or
presentation, the less likely I will return.

--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 04/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>> 7:47 AM:
>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>
>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>> time bomb.
>>>
>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>
>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>
>
> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>
> mozilla.engagement.developers
>
>

Thanks for the lead. Interesting reading, but I wouldn't call it
Mozilla's reaction. A couple of developer's opinions. Yes.
--
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Humans aren't a color of skin, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation,
or a flag. We are human beings and that is how we need to see and treat
each other. - Justin Sane


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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Gus Richter
On 04/12/2012 04:13 AM, Gus Richter wrote:

> On 4/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>
>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>> time bomb.
>>>>
>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>
>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>>
>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>
>>
>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>
>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>
>
> The threat is from contenders as well.
> How about the serious (not so) new contender Maxthon 3?
> I have tried it and it's a very fine product.
> Check out browser ratings for HTML5 support:
>
>    <http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html>
>
> Interesting how MX3 has sneaked past the other "big" browsers, no?
>
>    <http://www.maxthon.com/mx3/>
>

Where are the Mac and Linux versions?
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Bill Braun-3
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 4/12/2012 8:50 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 12.04.2012 03:13, Gus Richter wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 4/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>>> time bomb.
>>>>>
>>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>>>
>>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>>
>>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>>
>>
>> The threat is from contenders as well.
>> How about the serious (not so) new contender Maxthon 3?
>> I have tried it and it's a very fine product.
>> Check out browser ratings for HTML5 support:
>>
>>     <http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html>
>>
>> Interesting how MX3 has sneaked past the other "big" browsers, no?
>>
>>     <http://www.maxthon.com/mx3/>
>>
>
> The problem is, as I see it, is that all these high-falutin sites have
> to try to outdo each other, the result being is more advanced browsers
> are necessary. Gone are the days of searching for information presented
> in an easy to read format with nothing jumping and twirling, etc. The
> more eye candy I have to wade through to get info on a  product or
> presentation, the less likely I will return.

Over time I've developed a sense of the general age of some of us here,
and I fear, Jay, that the sentiment you express (which I endorse) is
fading fast. It is what it is, and stuff has to keep up, or be so bold
that it creates a shift that everyone wants to follow.

The paradox is, as an enterprise becomes larger and more successful, the
drive to radically innovate that was the reason for early success comes
to be seen as a considerable threat to continued existence. Going from
nothing to lose to something to lose does change people's perceptions.

Bill

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 4/12/2012 9:00 AM, WLS wrote:
> Where are the Mac and Linux versions?


It'a only available for Windoze.

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 12.04.2012 07:58, WLS wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 04/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>  --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>
>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>> time bomb.
>>>>
>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>
>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>
>>
>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>
>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the lead. Interesting reading, but I wouldn't call it
> Mozilla's reaction. A couple of developer's opinions. Yes.

One of the Mozilla reactions was from Mozilla - Valerie Ponell, Senior
PR Coordinator.

--
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

WaltS-3
On 04/12/2012 01:03 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 12.04.2012 07:58, WLS wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 04/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>  --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>>> time bomb.
>>>>>
>>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>>
>>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the lead. Interesting reading, but I wouldn't call it
>> Mozilla's reaction. A couple of developer's opinions. Yes.
>
> One of the Mozilla reactions was from Mozilla - Valerie Ponell, Senior
> PR Coordinator.
>

Thanks for the clarification.

Valerie appears to think the article " a piece of balanced, critical
journalism."

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 4/12/2012 8:50 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> The problem is, as I see it, is that ...


Just to try to get back on to the subject, it's crap like this (see
quote below) which disgusts me. The devs have nothing better to do than
mess with the UI for Thunderbird and drive users crazy. I, for example,
never "reply to sender" but always to "newsgroup" when in News Groups. I
subscribe to the netiquette to never respond to the sender unless
invited to do so. In fact, I have admonished some in the past for
sending mail (unsolicited) to my personal address (real as I use here).

<quote>
Just a quick heads-up to anyone out there who uses Thunderbird to read
newsgroups: in the latest nightly (2012-04-09), the message header
buttons now distinguish between reply (to the sender) and followup (to
the newsgroup). This makes the buttons work like they do for mailing
lists, so things should be clearer and more consistent.

See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718342> for more details.
<unquote>

So, because of a lot of different crap, I am looking around. I'm still a
Firefox and Thunderbird fan and user, but have Maxthon (and Opera,
Safari, Chrome, in that order) on standby for my Windoz machines and
still looking for a replacement for Thunderbird. I do have gmail, but
it's not to my taste. My Ubuntu machine is another story.

My point is to show why Mozilla may not survive (among other reasons).

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

WaltS-3
On 04/12/2012 01:39 PM, Gus Richter wrote:

> On 4/12/2012 8:50 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> The problem is, as I see it, is that ...
>
>
> Just to try to get back on to the subject, it's crap like this (see
> quote below) which disgusts me. The devs have nothing better to do than
> mess with the UI for Thunderbird and drive users crazy. I, for example,
> never "reply to sender" but always to "newsgroup" when in News Groups. I
> subscribe to the netiquette to never respond to the sender unless
> invited to do so. In fact, I have admonished some in the past for
> sending mail (unsolicited) to my personal address (real as I use here).
>
> <quote>
> Just a quick heads-up to anyone out there who uses Thunderbird to read
> newsgroups: in the latest nightly (2012-04-09), the message header
> buttons now distinguish between reply (to the sender) and followup (to
> the newsgroup). This makes the buttons work like they do for mailing
> lists, so things should be clearer and more consistent.
>
> See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718342> for more details.
> <unquote>
>
> So, because of a lot of different crap, I am looking around. I'm still a
> Firefox and Thunderbird fan and user, but have Maxthon (and Opera,
> Safari, Chrome, in that order) on standby for my Windoz machines and
> still looking for a replacement for Thunderbird. I do have gmail, but
> it's not to my taste. My Ubuntu machine is another story.
>
> My point is to show why Mozilla may not survive (among other reasons).
>

Poor point IMO. That change (which I keep trying to retrain myself to
use), just makes Thunderbird consistent with the way dedicated
newsreaders already work. You don't have to use it. I still click reply
from the mail toolbar, most of the time.

"The only downside that I can see from this change is that people who've
been raised on inaccurate terminology will have to adjust to the
accepted form."

http://tinyurl.com/6s9mv3n

--
Thunderbird Daily | openSUSE 12.1 | KDE 4.7.2
Humans aren't a color of skin, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation,
or a flag. We are human beings and that is how we need to see and treat
each other. - Justin Sane


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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 4/12/2012 8:00 AM, WLS wrote:

> On 04/12/2012 04:13 AM, Gus Richter wrote:
>> On 4/12/2012 12:29 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 11.04.2012 11:55, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/11/2012
>>>> 7:47 AM:
>>>>> Dave Lee writes in this article posted 11 April 2012
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mozilla Foundation president Mitchell Baker is sitting on a ticking
>>>>> time bomb.
>>>>>
>>>>> The survival of her company, which pledges to make the web a better
>>>>> place, is at the mercy of one of its main competitors, Google."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17663669
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing really new in the article that hasn't been discussed in articles
>>>> before except, maybe, Project Pancake, ref:
>>>> http://blog.mozilla.com/labs/2012/01/pancake-a-new-project-from-mozilla-labs/,
>>>>
>>>> but even that is somewhat of a vague-ish Blue Sky concept. Personally, I
>>>> think Mozilla's long-term growth relies more on their developer/usage
>>>> adoption of Project B2G, seeing how non-sovereign, locked-in mobile
>>>> platforms look to be where the mojo has shifted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to see Mozilla's reaction to the article as well as other
>>> staff thoughts on other subjects:
>>>
>>> mozilla.engagement.developers
>>
>>
>> The threat is from contenders as well.
>> How about the serious (not so) new contender Maxthon 3?
>> I have tried it and it's a very fine product.
>> Check out browser ratings for HTML5 support:
>>
>>     <http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html>
>>
>> Interesting how MX3 has sneaked past the other "big" browsers, no?
>>
>>     <http://www.maxthon.com/mx3/>
>>
>
> Where are the Mac and Linux versions?
Maxthon is built on the IE rendering engine, so you won't be able to use
it on a system without IE installed.

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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

clay-14
In reply to this post by Gus Richter
Gus Richter wrote:

> On 4/12/2012 8:50 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> The problem is, as I see it, is that ...
>
>
> Just to try to get back on to the subject, it's crap like this (see
> quote below) which disgusts me. The devs have nothing better to do than
> mess with the UI for Thunderbird and drive users crazy. I, for example,
> never "reply to sender" but always to "newsgroup" when in News Groups. I
> subscribe to the netiquette to never respond to the sender unless
> invited to do so. In fact, I have admonished some in the past for
> sending mail (unsolicited) to my personal address (real as I use here).
>
> <quote>
> Just a quick heads-up to anyone out there who uses Thunderbird to read
> newsgroups: in the latest nightly (2012-04-09), the message header
> buttons now distinguish between reply (to the sender) and followup (to
> the newsgroup). This makes the buttons work like they do for mailing
> lists, so things should be clearer and more consistent.
>
> See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718342> for more details.
> <unquote>...

Adding more bloat to an already bloated header pane.
I missed that point when I first read the post over at m.d.a.thunderbird.
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

clay-14
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
WLS wrote:

> On 04/12/2012 01:39 PM, Gus Richter wrote:
>> On 4/12/2012 8:50 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> The problem is, as I see it, is that ...
>>
>>
>> Just to try to get back on to the subject, it's crap like this (see
>> quote below) which disgusts me. The devs have nothing better to do than
>> mess with the UI for Thunderbird and drive users crazy. I, for example,
>> never "reply to sender" but always to "newsgroup" when in News Groups. I
>> subscribe to the netiquette to never respond to the sender unless
>> invited to do so. In fact, I have admonished some in the past for
>> sending mail (unsolicited) to my personal address (real as I use here).
>>
>> <quote>
>> Just a quick heads-up to anyone out there who uses Thunderbird to read
>> newsgroups: in the latest nightly (2012-04-09), the message header
>> buttons now distinguish between reply (to the sender) and followup (to
>> the newsgroup). This makes the buttons work like they do for mailing
>> lists, so things should be clearer and more consistent.
>>
>> See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718342> for more details.
>> <unquote>
>>
>> So, because of a lot of different crap, I am looking around. I'm still a
>> Firefox and Thunderbird fan and user, but have Maxthon (and Opera,
>> Safari, Chrome, in that order) on standby for my Windoz machines and
>> still looking for a replacement for Thunderbird. I do have gmail, but
>> it's not to my taste. My Ubuntu machine is another story.
>>
>> My point is to show why Mozilla may not survive (among other reasons).
>>
>
> Poor point IMO. That change (which I keep trying to retrain myself to
> use), just makes Thunderbird consistent with the way dedicated
> newsreaders already work...

To what end?
Thunderbird users who, out of ignorance or convenience, choose to use TB
to read nntp don't care a wit about how dedicated newsreaders do it.

Mutt. Slrn, Pan, Agent (Outaluck, heh) users aren't going to switch to
Thunderbird because it has a new button.

nothing personal WLS... thanks for giving me the opportunity to post the
rant I wanted to post over in the .dev group, where I first read about this.
Sadly, the last thing the dev's want to read about is reason...
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Re: Can Mozilla survive?

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 4/12/2012 2:38 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
> Maxthon is built on the IE rendering engine, so you won't be able to use
> it on a system without IE installed.


Not so at all! Massive bad information! Maybe so with earlier versions,
dunno! I've tried MX3. You obviously haven't.
They used to use Trident only, but now Maxthon3 uses Webkit as their
default and if you want to view old, defective IE only pages, you can
switch to Trident with one click and one click back.

<quote>
Maxthon3 has both Trident and Webkit layout engines. Webkit, the
default, is better at rendering modern web pages, while Trident may
correctly render items like shopping carts and log-in pages on older,
Microsoft–compliant websites when Webkit will not.
<unquote>

--
Gus

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