Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

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Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰

Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
about this!!!!!!!!. Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
donating to anti-gay party.  Would Apple's customers boycott the product
to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?

I have no opinion either way on this.




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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Dave Warren-2
In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
Good Guy <[hidden email]> said:

> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
> about this!!!!!!!!.

Probably because it has nothing to do with Mozilla, nor is it really
particularly relevant to most people.

> Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
> donating to anti-gay party. Would Apple's customers boycott the product
> to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?

Why would they? Apple's customers are predominately younger generation,
which tends to prefer openmindedness to bigotry, so I would suspect that
over time, this will give Apple strength over a competitor who happens
to end up with a CEO who takes an anti-gay position.

>I have no opinion either way on this.

Then why bring it up?
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
On 31/10/2014 02:12, Dave Warren wrote:

> In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
> Good Guy <[hidden email]> said:
>
>> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
>> about this!!!!!!!!.
> Probably because it has nothing to do with Mozilla, nor is it really
> particularly relevant to most people.
>
>> Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
>> donating to anti-gay party. Would Apple's customers boycott the product
>> to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?
> Why would they? Apple's customers are predominately younger generation,
> which tends to prefer openmindedness to bigotry, so I would suspect that
> over time, this will give Apple strength over a competitor who happens
> to end up with a CEO who takes an anti-gay position.
>
>> I have no opinion either way on this.
> Then why bring it up?

To get your opinion and from other like minded people like you. :)



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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
Good Guy wrote:
> Mozilla fired their CEO for donating to anti-gay party.

Brendan Eich contributed $1000 in support of CA's 2008 proposition 8,
which said that marriage in CA was to be between a man and a woman.
That contribution was known and blogged about for quite some time, since
2012.

That prop, like the earlier CA prop 22, passed by a majority of CA voters.

CA has long had significant laws supporting domestic partnerships which
are not called marriage; so there wasn't an existing CA problem about
gay couples not having partnership rights, the difference of voter
opinions was about the term 'marriage'.

When Eich was appointed CEO in 2014, activists rekindled the
controversy.  There were also underlying issues at the Moz board of
directors, so for whatever reasons, 3 of the 6 resigned just before
Eich's appointment.

Mozilla claimed to support Eich and partially explained the board member
resignations while the activists threatened to boycott.

Consequent to the brouhaha, Eich resigned the position and resigned from
working for Mozilla.

Nasty sequence. I doubt if Eich is anti-gay, and I don't consider being
for CA's props 22 or 8 to be an anti-gay position. It is about the
'meaning' of the marriage term being traditional or not and the change
in traditional meaning being necessary in a state with CA support for
domestic partnerships.

In some states which don't have strong domestic partnership legislation,
there needs to be something like either marriage or domestic partnership
laws to make a number of rights of gay couples work properly.



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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote:
> Good Guy wrote:
>> Mozilla fired their CEO for donating to anti-gay party.

> Mozilla claimed to support Eich and partially explained the board member
> resignations while the activists threatened to boycott.

Moz position and timeline faq

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignation/ FAQ on
CEO Resignation


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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Ron Hunter
On 10/31/2014 12:47 AM, Mike Easter wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>> Good Guy wrote:
>>> Mozilla fired their CEO for donating to anti-gay party.
>
>> Mozilla claimed to support Eich and partially explained the board member
>> resignations while the activists threatened to boycott.
>
> Moz position and timeline faq
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignation/ FAQ on
> CEO Resignation
>
>
I believe everyone has a right to his own opinion, and to his own
privacy as regards his sexual intimacy.  It is no business of mine, and
I don't seek to influence another person on that subject.  I DO strongly
object to those who think they have to inject their sexual orientation
into every casual conversation, or who think it is OK to change the
definition of 'marriage' to cover their committed relationships.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
On 10/31/2014 12:13 AM, Mike Easter wrote:

> Good Guy wrote:
>> Mozilla fired their CEO for donating to anti-gay party.
>
> Brendan Eich contributed $1000 in support of CA's 2008 proposition 8,
> which said that marriage in CA was to be between a man and a woman. That
> contribution was known and blogged about for quite some time, since 2012.
>
> That prop, like the earlier CA prop 22, passed by a majority of CA voters.
>
> CA has long had significant laws supporting domestic partnerships which
> are not called marriage; so there wasn't an existing CA problem about
> gay couples not having partnership rights, the difference of voter
> opinions was about the term 'marriage'.
>
> When Eich was appointed CEO in 2014, activists rekindled the
> controversy.  There were also underlying issues at the Moz board of
> directors, so for whatever reasons, 3 of the 6 resigned just before
> Eich's appointment.
>
> Mozilla claimed to support Eich and partially explained the board member
> resignations while the activists threatened to boycott.
>
> Consequent to the brouhaha, Eich resigned the position and resigned from
> working for Mozilla.
>
> Nasty sequence. I doubt if Eich is anti-gay, and I don't consider being
> for CA's props 22 or 8 to be an anti-gay position. It is about the
> 'meaning' of the marriage term being traditional or not and the change
> in traditional meaning being necessary in a state with CA support for
> domestic partnerships.
>
> In some states which don't have strong domestic partnership legislation,
> there needs to be something like either marriage or domestic partnership
> laws to make a number of rights of gay couples work properly.
>
>
>
I agree with you, mostly.  I don't feel it is right by those of us in
long-standing marriages (or the traditional variety) to have the word
stretched to include not-traditional relationships.  Some other word
needs to be chosen, or invented, to describe this relationship, and use
of 'husband' and 'wife' should also be avoided.  If people of the same
sex want to live together, and derive some of the civil benefits, such
as insurance coverage, and visitation rights in hospitals, for instance,
I certainly have no objection.  When we get into tax breaks, I am much
less liberal as I think those were intended to make it easier for a
married couple to manage to support children.  At this point in the
development of the country, we should begin thinking about ending those
'inducements' to population growth, by eliminating those breaks for
children born after a certain point.  We have plenty of people!

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

PietB
In reply to this post by πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
Good Guy wrote:
> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has
> commented here about this!!!!!!!!

This is mozilla.general, not mozilla.gayneral.

-p

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

PietB
In reply to this post by Dave Warren-2
Dave Warren wrote:
> Apple's customers are predominately younger generation,
> which tends to prefer openmindedness to bigotry

You're overlooking the millions of older generation folks
who use Mozilla products and are as openminded as the
younger generation that you seem to solely ascribe that
attitude to.

-p

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Ron Hunter
On 10/31/2014 5:23 AM, PietB wrote:

> Dave Warren wrote:
>> Apple's customers are predominately younger generation,
>> which tends to prefer openmindedness to bigotry
>
> You're overlooking the millions of older generation folks
> who use Mozilla products and are as openminded as the
> younger generation that you seem to solely ascribe that
> attitude to.
>
> -p
>
Yes, I guess because I have an iPhone 5 I am an openminded younger
generation person.  After all, I won't be 72 until December.  Grin.
I strongly object to the idea that a person's technical knowledge, and
interest, can be judged entirely, or even generally, by his age.  Not
all of us have forgotten everything we ever knew about computers when we
turned 65.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

James Silverton-3
In reply to this post by πŸ˜‰ Good Guy πŸ˜‰
On 10/30/2014 10:01 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>
> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
> about this!!!!!!!!. Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
> donating to anti-gay party.  Would Apple's customers boycott the product
> to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?
>
> I have no opinion either way on this.
>

"Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
not a choice.

--

James Silverton ( NOT not.jim.silverton)
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Bill Braun
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 10/31/2014 7:44 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 10/31/2014 5:23 AM, PietB wrote:
>> Dave Warren wrote:
>>> Apple's customers are predominately younger generation,
>>> which tends to prefer openmindedness to bigotry
>>
>> You're overlooking the millions of older generation folks
>> who use Mozilla products and are as openminded as the
>> younger generation that you seem to solely ascribe that
>> attitude to.
>>
>> -p
>>
> Yes, I guess because I have an iPhone 5 I am an openminded younger
> generation person.  After all, I won't be 72 until December. Grin.
> I strongly object to the idea that a person's technical knowledge, and
> interest, can be judged entirely, or even generally, by his age.  Not
> all of us have forgotten everything we ever knew about computers when
> we turned 65.
>

I heartily agree with Ron. Although just shy of 65, I am still as sharp
as I ever was. And, I can assure you that I have no memory of any memory
loss.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Dino-3
In reply to this post by James Silverton-3
James Silverton wrote:

> On 10/30/2014 10:01 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>>
>> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
>> about this!!!!!!!!. Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
>> donating to anti-gay party.  Would Apple's customers boycott the product
>> to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?
>>
>> I have no opinion either way on this.
>>
>
> "Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
> straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
> not a choice.
>
Straight and proud of it.
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by James Silverton-3
James Silverton wrote:

> "Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
> straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
> not a choice.

The context of Cook's pride (in how he is 'different') is best explained
by Cook's essay rather than the sound bites the media is taking.

http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/233598-tim-cook-speaks-up

The title of his article/essay was actually "Tim Cook Speaks Up" and the
phrase about pride is followed by this par:

// Being gay has given me a deeper understanding of what it means to be
in the minority and provided a window into the challenges that people in
other minority groups deal with every day. It’s made me more empathetic,
which has led to a richer life. It’s been tough and uncomfortable at
times, but it has given me the confidence to be myself, to follow my own
path, and to rise above adversity and bigotry. It’s also given me the
skin of a rhinoceros, which comes in handy when you’re the CEO of Apple. //

--
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> "Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
>> straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
>> not a choice.
>
> The context of Cook's pride (in how he is 'different') is best explained
> by Cook's essay rather than the sound bites the media is taking.

There is something telling in that Brendan Eich couldn't find it within
himself to be 'proud' (or confident or whatever) in his belief or
political opinion or view of the concept of traditional man-woman
marriage, but instead he felt he should sacrifice his entire career and
accomplishments to date to the shrill voices of an opposing opinion...

... whereas or OTOH, Tim Cook CAN.

Maybe Brendan Eich should have 'manned up' like Tim Cook has.

--
Mike Easter
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Β»QΒ«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I DO strongly object to those who think they have to inject their
> sexual orientation into every casual conversation,

I guess I'm lucky;  I've never met anyone like that.  Is it a big
problem in Texas?

> or who think it is OK to change the definition of 'marriage' to cover
> their committed relationships.

IOW, you strongly object to them using any definition other than *your*
definition, whatever that is.
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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Β»QΒ«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't feel it is right by those of us in long-standing marriages
> (or the traditional variety) to have the word stretched to include
> not-traditional relationships.  Some other word needs to be chosen,
> or invented, to describe this relationship, and use of 'husband' and
> 'wife' should also be avoided.

Insistence from you and others that those words should only be used in
the way you deem politically correct doesn't seem to be having much
effect any more, and I'm glad of that.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
On 10/31/2014 10:43 AM, Mike Easter wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> "Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
>>> straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
>>> not a choice.
>>
>> The context of Cook's pride (in how he is 'different') is best explained
>> by Cook's essay rather than the sound bites the media is taking.
>
> There is something telling in that Brendan Eich couldn't find it within
> himself to be 'proud' (or confident or whatever) in his belief or
> political opinion or view of the concept of traditional man-woman
> marriage, but instead he felt he should sacrifice his entire career and
> accomplishments to date to the shrill voices of an opposing opinion...
>
> ... whereas or OTOH, Tim Cook CAN.
>
> Maybe Brendan Eich should have 'manned up' like Tim Cook has.
>
He donated to a cause he believed in, and was crucified for it.  At
least he is in good company.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by James Silverton-3
On 10/31/2014 8:45 AM, James Silverton wrote:

> On 10/30/2014 10:01 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>>
>> Apple's Tim Cook is "proud to be gay" and nobody has commented here
>> about this!!!!!!!!. Just saying because Mozilla fired their CEO for
>> donating to anti-gay party.  Would Apple's customers boycott the product
>> to make it easier for shareholders to fire this guy?
>>
>> I have no opinion either way on this.
>>
>
> "Proud to be gay" seems to imply that it is better to be gay than
> straight. I acknowledge Cook's right to be what he is but it is probably
> not a choice.
>
What I don't understand is why anyone not intimately involved with him
needs to know, or care.  I don't care if he puts his pants on left foot
first, and then right, or if he does both at once (firefighter style).
I don't care what kind of toothpaste he uses, or what kind of razor he
uses, or if he likes his sex partners concave or convex, or one of each
sequentially, or in parallel.  It isn't my business, doesn't affect me,
and I really DON'T want to know.  So why do some people have to wave a
flag and say 'LOOK AT ME, I'M ______.', and then tell the world they
should have 'equal right'.  They already DO!  What some people want is
UNEQUAL rights, because they are different.  It's rather like
left-handed people suing for equal rights, to drive on the other side of
the road, or to always have right turn lanes, because others get left
turn lanes.  Just live your life, and don't make a big fuss about
something you didn't choose in the first place.

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Re: Apple's Tim Cook - not comments yet?

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> There is something telling in that Brendan Eich couldn't find it within
>> himself to be 'proud' (or confident or whatever) in his belief or
>> political opinion or view of the concept of traditional man-woman
>> marriage, but instead he felt he should sacrifice his entire career and
>> accomplishments to date to the shrill voices of an opposing opinion...
>>
>> ... whereas or OTOH, Tim Cook CAN.
>>
>> Maybe Brendan Eich should have 'manned up' like Tim Cook has.
>>
> He donated to a cause he believed in, and was crucified for it.  At
> least he is in good company.

Actually not 'crucified'.  He was assailed in the media as being
politically incorrect in 2008, and perhaps by extension, today.

My point is that instead of more or less committing professional suicide
because of the heat, he could have alternatively done some of his own
essay writing, depending on his current political position.

He could have said what he did about his attitudes for inclusiveness and
his LGBT friends and associates and/but that he stood by his old 2008
position about proposition 8 which is currently moot, since in CA it is
the judges who decide what the laws and the CA constituion should be,
not the people voting on propositions.

OR

He could have done an Obama on the subject and said that in 2008 he
supported prop 8 and was against gay marriage then, but since then he
has reconsidered and would not support the proposition today; in fact,
he is now in favor of gay marriage in some states

OR

He could take a hard right on the subject and say that he still feels
exactly the same way as he did in 2008 against gay marriage, and further
he feels that the swinging of the pendulum of public opinion has gone
too far in bending to the will of the LGBT agenda.

BUT

(he could have said)
... in any case, he wasn't resigning and that he appreciated the support
and inclusiveness which the Mozilla board had extended by accepting his
right to have a politically controversial perspective on a hot-button issue.


--
Mike Easter
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