[ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

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[ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-2
Dear localizers,

yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the release
schedule for Thunderbird 3.

- *Planned* code freeze dates:
    3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
  ====+===================+===================+===
  2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13

- *Planned* string freeze dates:
    3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
  ====+===================+===================+===
  2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18

So this means, that we are planning to freeze the strings for the
Thunderbird 3 beta releases one week before the code freeze date.

The overall string freeze for the final release is planned to happen
two weeks after the beta2 code freeze (eight weeks before the planned
RC1 code freeze) to give you enough time to get your locales in shape.

Two additional notes:
1. These are planning dates, which may be subject to change and are
   not set in stone. From experience that mostly means that it may
   happen that the code freeze and string freeze dates get pushed
   back a few days or weeks. *If* this happens, I'll inform you as
   soon as I hear about it.
2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
   due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
   outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
   fixed soon.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Cya
Simon

--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localization (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Wim-7
Simon,

I guess string freeze for 3.0rc1 will be 2009-01-06, or am I wrong?

> Dear localizers,
>
> yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the release
> schedule for Thunderbird 3.
>
> - *Planned* code freeze dates:
>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>   ====+===================+===================+===
>   2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13
>
> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>   ====+===================+===================+===
>   2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>
> So this means, that we are planning to freeze the strings for the
> Thunderbird 3 beta releases one week before the code freeze date.
>
> The overall string freeze for the final release is planned to happen
> two weeks after the beta2 code freeze (eight weeks before the planned
> RC1 code freeze) to give you enough time to get your locales in shape.
>
> Two additional notes:
> 1. These are planning dates, which may be subject to change and are
>    not set in stone. From experience that mostly means that it may
>    happen that the code freeze and string freeze dates get pushed
>    back a few days or weeks. *If* this happens, I'll inform you as
>    soon as I hear about it.
> 2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
>    due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
>    outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>    fixed soon.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
>
> Cya
> Simon
>  
Kind regards,
Wim

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Axel Hecht
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
Simon Paquet wrote:

> Dear localizers,
>
> yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the release
> schedule for Thunderbird 3.
>
> - *Planned* code freeze dates:
>    3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>  ====+===================+===================+===
>  2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13
>
> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>    3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>  ====+===================+===================+===
>  2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>
> So this means, that we are planning to freeze the strings for the
> Thunderbird 3 beta releases one week before the code freeze date.

I read through
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/StatusMeetings/2008-08-05 and have
some overarching comments:

What we ended up doing for Firefox 3 for the per-release freezes was
code freeze on Tuesday morning, with a string freeze on the previous
Thursday night. That way, localizers have two weekdays and two days on
the weekend. A complete week is nice, but fewer days with a string
freeze that sticks is more valuable than a rather slushy week. One thing
you should add to your schedule is a fixed announcement date for the
string and code freezes. Should be more than a week to string freeze,
I'd say.

We were rather strict on feature freeze, that was the previous-to-last
beta, IIRC, and final product string freeze was the release freeze for
the final beta.

Pre-landing strings for l10n is one of those urban myths I never
understood. Translating UI without knowing what the UI looks like and
what the context of the strings is is tricky, hard, bad. Pre-landed
strings are our most prominent reasons for having strings exposed to
localizers that were never used in the end.
They make for non-good translation work, they tend to bitrot our code
base, pre-landed strings are just a bad idea.
Sadly, when all things come to an end, they might be least bad idea, but
that doesn't make them something you should plan for. (technically, I
need to free me up for l10n-merge, which might fix this in another way.)

late-l10n changes should go announced in the l10n newsgroup, with
detailed description on what it takes to localize the feature. In
particular when there are nifty procedures involved to expose the
strings in UI, describe how to do that. It's 5 minutes for the original
developer than spares some 5+ minutes of reverse engineering for each of
the dozens of localization teams. Good trade-off :-)

HTH

Axel
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
Wim wrote on 06. Aug 2008:

>> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>>   ====+===================+===================+===
>>   2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>
> I guess string freeze for 3.0rc1 will be 2009-01-06, or am I wrong?

Wim, I've adjusted the context a little bit, to make the answer clear.
No, we are not asking you to get your locale in shape in just one week.

Simon

--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localization (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
Axel Hecht wrote on 06. Aug 2008:

> I read through
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/StatusMeetings/2008-08-05 and
> have some overarching comments:
>
> What we ended up doing for Firefox 3 for the per-release freezes
> was code freeze on Tuesday morning, with a string freeze on the
> previous Thursday night. That way, localizers have two weekdays
> and two days on the weekend. A complete week is nice, but fewer
> days with a string freeze that sticks is more valuable than a
> rather slushy week.

You're right. Remember pretty much everyone is doing this for the
first time (including me as we've done no pre-releases in the Calendar
space for a long time), so we are all learning as we go. If it turns
out that five days are enough for localizers for pre-releases, the
developers will certainly appreciate it.

> One thing you should add to your schedule is a fixed announcement
> date for the string and code freezes. Should be more than a week
> to string freeze, I'd say.

Good idea.

> We were rather strict on feature freeze, that was the
> previous-to-last beta, IIRC, and final product string freeze was
> the release freeze for the final beta.

Sounds like a good idea, but there are few differences here.

First of all, there is the learning thing (mentioned above), so people
don't have clear picture right now, how far along we'll be at beta1
and beta 2.

Doing the feature freeze in the previous-to-last beta is easy if you
do five betas, but harder if you only do one :-) It's impossible for
us, because Calendar will only land in TB after beta1, because we
need to get our last branch-release (0.9) out first.

> Pre-landing strings for l10n is one of those urban myths I never
> understood. Translating UI without knowing what the UI looks like
> and what the context of the strings is is tricky, hard, bad.
> Pre-landed strings are our most prominent reasons for having
> strings exposed to localizers that were never used in the end.
> They make for non-good translation work, they tend to bitrot our
> code base, pre-landed strings are just a bad idea.
> Sadly, when all things come to an end, they might be least bad
> idea, but that doesn't make them something you should plan for.

I totally agree and will stress that point when talking to TB
developers.

> late-l10n changes should go announced in the l10n newsgroup, with
> detailed description on what it takes to localize the feature. In
> particular when there are nifty procedures involved to expose the
> strings in UI, describe how to do that. It's 5 minutes for the
> original developer than spares some 5+ minutes of reverse
> engineering for each of the dozens of localization teams. Good
> trade-off :-)

Absolutely and that is how we've tried to handle it for Calendar in
the past. I will stress that point as well when talking to TB
developers.

Thanks for your input
Simon

--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localization (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Filip Miletic-4
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
Simon Paquet schreef:
>   outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>   fixed soon.
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
When is it going to be fixed?  Any indications?  Will the tinderboxes be
available afterwards?

Thanks,
f
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-3
Filip Miletic wrote:

>>   outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>>   fixed soon.
>
>> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
>
>When is it going to be fixed? Any indications? Will the tinderboxes be
>available afterwards?

Please watch Axel's thread. He will surely announce it there, once the
move to hg has been completed.

Simon Paquet
--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localisation (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Roberto Pincipiano
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
Simon Paquet ha scritto:

> 2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
>   due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
>   outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>   fixed soon.


Is still TB tinderbox down or is there another place where to check TB
status? Will TB be moved on Mercurial or should we continue to use CSV?

Tnx,
Roberto
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-2
Roberto Pincipiano wrote on 21. Aug 2008:

>> 2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
>>   due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
>>   outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>>   fixed soon.
>
> Is still TB tinderbox down

Yes.

> or is there another place where to check TB status?

Not yet.

> Will TB be moved on Mercurial or should we continue to use CVS?

Please move over to Mercurial. Localization in CVS is dead with
exception of the upcoming Sunbird/Lightning release 0.9 and the
Firefox 3.0.x security releases.

Simon

--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localization (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

F Wolff-2
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
On Wo, 2008-08-06 at 14:06 +0200, Simon Paquet wrote:

> Dear localizers,
>
> yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the release
> schedule for Thunderbird 3.
>
> - *Planned* code freeze dates:
>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>   ====+===================+===================+===
>   2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13
>
> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>   ====+===================+===================+===
>   2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>
> So this means, that we are planning to freeze the strings for the
> Thunderbird 3 beta releases one week before the code freeze date.
>
> The overall string freeze for the final release is planned to happen
> two weeks after the beta2 code freeze (eight weeks before the planned
> RC1 code freeze) to give you enough time to get your locales in shape.
>
> Two additional notes:
> 1. These are planning dates, which may be subject to change and are
>    not set in stone. From experience that mostly means that it may
>    happen that the code freeze and string freeze dates get pushed
>    back a few days or weeks. *If* this happens, I'll inform you as
>    soon as I hear about it.
> 2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
>    due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
>    outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>    fixed soon.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
>
> Cya
> Simon

Hallo Simon

At what stage in this timeline do you need people to get on board if we
want to be in 3.0-final? I guess the answer is "the earliest we can",
but if there is huge overhead in each localised beta, I'd like to know
at what time we _need_ to be in. I'm hoping your answer will be rc1 :-)

Keep well
Friedel

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Axel Hecht
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
F Wolff wrote:

> On Wo, 2008-08-06 at 14:06 +0200, Simon Paquet wrote:
>> Dear localizers,
>>
>> yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the release
>> schedule for Thunderbird 3.
>>
>> - *Planned* code freeze dates:
>>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>>   ====+===================+===================+===
>>   2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13
>>
>> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>>   ====+===================+===================+===
>>   2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>>
>> So this means, that we are planning to freeze the strings for the
>> Thunderbird 3 beta releases one week before the code freeze date.
>>
>> The overall string freeze for the final release is planned to happen
>> two weeks after the beta2 code freeze (eight weeks before the planned
>> RC1 code freeze) to give you enough time to get your locales in shape.
>>
>> Two additional notes:
>> 1. These are planning dates, which may be subject to change and are
>>    not set in stone. From experience that mostly means that it may
>>    happen that the code freeze and string freeze dates get pushed
>>    back a few days or weeks. *If* this happens, I'll inform you as
>>    soon as I hear about it.
>> 2. There are currently no l10n tinderboxen for the Thunderbird trunk,
>>    due to the move of Thunderbird code to comm-central and the
>>    outstanding creation of an hg l10n repository. We hope to have this
>>    fixed soon.
>>
>> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
>>
>> Cya
>> Simon
>
> Hallo Simon
>
> At what stage in this timeline do you need people to get on board if we
> want to be in 3.0-final? I guess the answer is "the earliest we can",
> but if there is huge overhead in each localised beta, I'd like to know
> at what time we _need_ to be in. I'm hoping your answer will be rc1 :-)

Two things, this is a decision about QA requirements for a final
release, and thus should be made by the TB product team.

As they'd take suggestions from l10n-drivers, I suppose, here's mine:

Don't release software without a beta cycle. The strong point that open
source software has over proprietary software is community involvement,
and just throwing that away doesn't sound like a good idea.

Axel
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Thunderbird 3 release schedule for l10n (string freeze dates)

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
F Wolff wrote on 21. Aug 2008:

>> yesterday the Thunderbird core development team finalised the
>> release schedule for Thunderbird 3.
>>
>> - *Planned* code freeze dates:
>>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>>   ====+===================+===================+===
>>   2008-09-09         2008-11-04         2009-01-13
>>
>> - *Planned* string freeze dates:
>>     3.0b1               3.0b2               3.0rc1
>>   ====+===================+===================+===
>>   2008-09-02         2008-10-28         2008-11-18
>>
> At what stage in this timeline do you need people to get on
> board if we want to be in 3.0-final? I guess the answer is
> "the earliest we can", but if there is huge overhead in each
> localised beta, I'd like to know at what time we _need_ to be
> in. I'm hoping your answer will be rc1 :-)

You need to be in by the time we release the RC1.

That being said, Axel is right that it would be absolutely beneficial,
if you're already ready by the time that Beta1 or Beta2 will be
released. That gives you and your testers much more time to test the
localization and improve its quality.

You should also note, that it is highly likely, that the Lightning
extension will be part of the Thunderbird 3 release. So if you do
not already have a working Calendar translation, that means that a
large number of strings will come your way, that your community has
not seen before.

So, in reality the correct answer would be "as soon as possible".

Simon

--
Thunderbird/Calendar Localization (L10n) Coordinator
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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