A way forward?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
266 messages Options
1234 ... 14
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

A way forward?

Gervase Markham
Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;

I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
our newsgroups for two years now.

So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
you'd like me to do this.

The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
illegal content.

Gerv
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Leonidas Jones-2
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.
>
> Gerv

This sounds like a very reasonable and well thought out controversy, and
I thank for this Gerv.  It would give all of us a new starting point, a
"do over" as the kinds on the playground call it.

I would like to make the point, and I think I can speak for most of us,
that we feel that Grant/Peter Potamus should be allowed to be a
contributor in good standing of this proposed new group. His banning,
regardless of one's personal impression of him, was not fair or
justified in this case.

Thank you very much for the psalm citation.  The 133rd psalm is a most
important scripture in the first degree of the Masonic communityh, and
it did my heart good to see it here.

Lee
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Leonidas Jones-2
Leonidas Jones wrote:
> Gervase Markham wrote:
>> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
/snip/

>
> This sounds like a very reasonable and well thought out controversy, and
> I thank for this Gerv.  It would give all of us a new starting point, a
> "do over" as the kinds on the playground call it.
>
> I would like to make the point, and I think I can speak for most of us,
> that we feel that Grant/Peter Potamus should be allowed to be a
> contributor in good standing of this proposed new group. His banning,
> regardless of one's personal impression of him, was not fair or
> justified in this case.
>
> Thank you very much for the psalm citation.  The 133rd psalm is a most
> important scripture in the first degree of the Masonic communityh, and
> it did my heart good to see it here.
>
> Lee

The word "controversy" in my reply had to be a spell checker thing.  It
should have read "compromise". My apologies.

Lee
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Terry R.
On 12/7/2007 9:31 AM On a whim, Leonidas Jones pounded out on the keyboard

> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> Gervase Markham wrote:
>>> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> /snip/
>> This sounds like a very reasonable and well thought out controversy, and
>> I thank for this Gerv.  It would give all of us a new starting point, a
>> "do over" as the kinds on the playground call it.
>>
>> I would like to make the point, and I think I can speak for most of us,
>> that we feel that Grant/Peter Potamus should be allowed to be a
>> contributor in good standing of this proposed new group. His banning,
>> regardless of one's personal impression of him, was not fair or
>> justified in this case.
>>
>> Thank you very much for the psalm citation.  The 133rd psalm is a most
>> important scripture in the first degree of the Masonic communityh, and
>> it did my heart good to see it here.
>>
>> Lee
>
> The word "controversy" in my reply had to be a spell checker thing.  It
> should have read "compromise". My apologies.
>
> Lee

Can we get that fixed in Moz products?  ;-)

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Ron K.
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham keyboarded, On 12/7/2007 11:24 AM :

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon
> that falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the
> ranting that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm
> 133 would make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its
> proper purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources
> should be used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I
> also understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one
> of our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might
> take the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they
> agree to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit
> any illegal content.
>
> Gerv

We are not an unconnected community.  We are volunteer QA staff whom
Mozilla is perceived as reluctant to acknowledge as members of the
development team.

Since the initiation of this group the focus of postings was to find the
broken portions of the Tb and Sm mail/news core code that prevents those
products from functioning correctly when Dynamic HTML ( including CSS
and JS ) postings are generated by the products.  Bugs have been filed
against several serious malfunctions in the code.  With each Release
build those functions are retested.  With the series of nightlies, those
risking the bleeding edge are also evaluating whether any regressions or
fixes exist.  Due to malfunctions in how the HTML generator processes
content where there is JS included within a script /script taq set, all
new or revised scripts have to be tested and retested.

Some specifics are:
Composer botches JS code handling of && and > operators.
Composer strips CSS during edits.
Composer fails to support the background-image attribute within tables.
Tb releases do not support the plugin API. (It's on and off, on and off,
in nightlies)

These are problems that were identified years ago during the early days
of the Tb project and remain in the release builds being used by the
general public.

Finally, because those with years of experience with utilizing
multi-media within mail or news messages monitor this group daily, we
are the help resource rendering customer assistance for requests that
are OT in mozilla.support.thunderbird.  This brouhaha is an outgrowth of
one of those cases.  A few days earlier our resident expert on Tb JS
code workarounds taught the Peter how to inject code into a Sig file for
use with a newsletter He sends fron some other server.  One would expect
to see some testing of the lesson under the supervision of the teacher
to confirm mastery of the lesson.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Michael-369
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Michael at Armadilloweb.com pondered over this reply On 12/7/2007 10:24 AM

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.
>
> Gerv
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

jay-76
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
On Dec 7, 11:24 am, Gervase Markham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.
>
> Gerv

As Lee so eloquently put it and I agree 100% with the name
mozilla.general.multimedia .. sounds very appropriate.

Cheers and thanks for listening here AND in our private mailings.

Jay

PS: At this point I am not on sure footing with the secnews server
with AOL's track record of letting employees go and such. We lost our
on-site admin Markus Bauer to the axe man ...
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:
> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;

keep your bible thoughts to yourself.  Not every shares your
thinking about the bible, and not every believes in the
bible, and not everyone here is Christian.

> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.

why come up with another newsgroup? Why not just change the
purpose of the current one?  Just remove the current
"official" moderator.  Keep the current non-official one, if
he so desires now.  And remove the current list owner.

Then so that no one moderator and/or list owner, will become
judge, jury, and executioner, make it so that all
moderator(s)/list owner(s) must consult with each other.
Oh, I forgot, there must be a third one to break the tie.
And it can't be Q or Nir, as they're not part of the
"current" "multimedia community."  Hmmm, lets see . . . who
could that be . . . ?

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails to me may become public

Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
Newsgroups, as its not "contributing to the developement of
the Mozilla Project"

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.
>
> Gerv

If you could do that and not allow *Chris I* to be list owner, or in an
ways associated with the group. Might be interesting.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET                                http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9               Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

jay-76
In reply to this post by Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
On Dec 7, 2:46 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gervase Markham wrote:
> > Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> > of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> > falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> > that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> > make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> >http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> keep your bible thoughts to yourself.  Not every shares your
> thinking about the bible, and not every believes in the
> bible, and not everyone here is Christian.

For those that are not bible oriented and/or Christians, the one line
that was quoted is meaningless. For those that are, they can click on
the link provided and for those that aren't can move on.

> > So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> > possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> > creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> > the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> > community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> > you'd like me to do this.
>
> why come up with another newsgroup? Why not just change the
> purpose of the current one?  Just remove the current
> "official" moderator.  Keep the current non-official one, if
> he so desires now.  And remove the current list owner.
>
> Then so that no one moderator and/or list owner, will become
> judge, jury, and executioner, make it so that all
> moderator(s)/list owner(s) must consult with each other.
> Oh, I forgot, there must be a third one to break the tie.
> And it can't be Q or Nir, as they're not part of the
> "current" "multimedia community."  Hmmm, lets see . . . who
> could that be . . . ?
>
> --
> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
>
> Warning: Private emails to me may become public
>
> Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
> Newsgroups, as its not "contributing to the developement of
> the Mozilla Project"
>
> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

Hard to believe that after all we've been through defending the
community position that you would post this acidic reply. Be thankful
for favors. Gerv is being overly gracious IMHO by even offering a
compromise. Let "The Community" speak for itself.

Jay
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

jay-76
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
On Dec 7, 3:11 pm, "Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Gervase Markham wrote:
> > Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> > of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> > falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> > that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> > make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> >http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> > I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> > purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> > used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> > understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> > inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> > our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> > So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> > possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> > creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> > the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> > community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> > you'd like me to do this.
>
> > The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> > the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> > to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> > illegal content.
>
> > Gerv
>
> If you could do that and not allow *Chris I* to be list owner, or in an
> ways associated with the group. Might be interesting.
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Phillip M. Jones, CET                                http://www.vpea.org
> If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
>                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
> Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9               Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You missed the point .. Here, I'll post the relevant part as regards
your reply:

The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's
true,
the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they
agree
to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
illegal content.


Jay
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Irwin Greenwald-4
In reply to this post by jay-76
On 12/7/2007 12:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On Dec 7, 2:46 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Gervase Markham wrote:
>>> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
>>> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
>>> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
>>> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
>>> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
>>> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>> keep your bible thoughts to yourself.  Not every shares your
>> thinking about the bible, and not every believes in the
>> bible, and not everyone here is Christian.
>
> For those that are not bible oriented and/or Christians, the one line
> that was quoted is meaningless. For those that are, they can click on
> the link provided and for those that aren't can move on.
>
>>> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
>>> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
>>> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
>>> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
>>> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
>>> you'd like me to do this.
>> why come up with another newsgroup? Why not just change the
>> purpose of the current one?  Just remove the current
>> "official" moderator.  Keep the current non-official one, if
>> he so desires now.  And remove the current list owner.
>>
>> Then so that no one moderator and/or list owner, will become
>> judge, jury, and executioner, make it so that all
>> moderator(s)/list owner(s) must consult with each other.
>> Oh, I forgot, there must be a third one to break the tie.
>> And it can't be Q or Nir, as they're not part of the
>> "current" "multimedia community."  Hmmm, lets see . . . who
>> could that be . . . ?
>>
>> --
>> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
>>
>> Warning: Private emails to me may become public
>>
>> Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
>> Newsgroups, as its not "contributing to the developement of
>> the Mozilla Project"
>>
>> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
>
> Hard to believe that after all we've been through defending the
> community position that you would post this acidic reply. Be thankful
> for favors. Gerv is being overly gracious IMHO by even offering a
> compromise. Let "The Community" speak for itself.
>
> Jay

Thanks for *both* of your comments Jay from one of the non Christian
members of the community.

--
Irwin

Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.
Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Leonidas Jones-2
Irwin Greenwald wrote:
> On 12/7/2007 12:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 2:46 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
/snip/

>>
>> Hard to believe that after all we've been through defending the
>> community position that you would post this acidic reply. Be thankful
>> for favors. Gerv is being overly gracious IMHO by even offering a
>> compromise. Let "The Community" speak for itself.
>>
>> Jay
>
> Thanks for *both* of your comments Jay from one of the non Christian
> members of the community.
>

Well Irwin, they are the Psalms of David, are they not?  :)

Lee
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Michael-369
In reply to this post by Michael-369
Michael at Armadilloweb.com pondered over this reply On 12/7/2007 12:48 PM

> Michael at Armadilloweb.com pondered over this reply On 12/7/2007 10:24 AM
>
>> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
>> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
>> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
>> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
>> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
>> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>>
>> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
>> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
>> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
>> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
>> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
>> our newsgroups for two years now.
>>
>> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
>> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
>> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
>> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
>> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
>> you'd like me to do this.
>>
>> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
>> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
>> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
>> illegal content.
>>
>> Gerv

Dear Grev,
Thank you for posting in MTMM and offering an alternative for
Multi-Media use with the Gecko family of products.
In my opinion, we need a space where we can provide support to the users
of Gecko products in all aspects of the products use.  It should not
matter whether the support uses images, audio (or both), and text
support to help the user enable all tools and capacity of those products.

Other forms of support available are time consuming and not user
friendly.  That is to say, it is not an easy task to provide the
immediate reply to a question or problem the user has encountered.

An example may help to illustrate my point.  To use the other forms of
support we have to log into a forum and search through the postings for
support related issues.  If we deem it necessary to include screen shots
of our settings, or the user needs to include screen snots of the errors
encountered it is not a simple task to perform, it takes time and effort
to compose all the text, imagery, and post to the forum.

With a news group approach, I receive all the postings in my SeaMonkey
Newsgroups accounts very similar to my e-mail accounts.  I can open a
support question and reply within a few seconds with relative screen
captures, code snippets, and recommendations to assist the original poster.

I can post original posts using the tools in SeaMonkey and my HTML
coding experience to share new developments with other members of the
news group, and get their responses.  Many times they have little issues
with rendering the content and we can work out those issues thereby
enhancing the ability to use Multi-Media in mail and news accounts.
What we need is a space where we can support all of the Gecko products
with all the tools available within all those products.  Testing,
sharing, and supporting the user of the Gecko products, and ourselves.
I mention ourselves because not one of us knows all there is to know
about creating mail, web page, and multi-media content.

In closing, I am not in favor of “sharing binary files” for the single
purpose of publicly sharing copyrighted material.  However, using
publicly available binary files to illustrate problem solving and
content development is not a violation of the copyright laws of the US,
or internationally.  The only viable way to provide technical support
for creating multi-media content is to test it on the applications for
which it is intended, and then debug the content, or file reports on the
application.

Thank you for your support on these matters,

Respectfully,

Michael Gordon
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Irwin Greenwald-4
In reply to this post by Leonidas Jones-2
On 12/7/2007 12:28 PM, Leonidas Jones wrote:

> Irwin Greenwald wrote:
>> On 12/7/2007 12:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On Dec 7, 2:46 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> /snip/
>>>
>>> Hard to believe that after all we've been through defending the
>>> community position that you would post this acidic reply. Be thankful
>>> for favors. Gerv is being overly gracious IMHO by even offering a
>>> compromise. Let "The Community" speak for itself.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>
>> Thanks for *both* of your comments Jay from one of the non Christian
>> members of the community.
>>
>
> Well Irwin, they are the Psalms of David, are they not?  :)
>
> Lee

Nor am I a Jew.

--
Irwin

Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.
Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
On 12/7/07 11:24 AM, _Gervase Markham_ spoke thusly:

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.

What would the purpose of the new newsgroup be? My immediate concern is
that it would segregate support traffic. If someone wants to know "How
do I insert foo in an email message in Thunderbird", that post belongs
in mozilla.support.thunderbird. People may also start using the group
for general multimedia enquiries, like this:
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite/browse_frm/thread/d2a8b6aca81f4358>

If people do use it for posting things simply for others' enjoyment, is
that still misuse?
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Jay Garcia
On 07.12.2007 17:03, Chris Ilias wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 12/7/07 11:24 AM, _Gervase Markham_ spoke thusly:
>> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
>> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
>> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
>> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
>> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
>> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>>
>> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
>> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
>> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
>> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
>> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
>> our newsgroups for two years now.
>>
>> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
>> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
>> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
>> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
>> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
>> you'd like me to do this.
>>
>> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
>> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
>> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
>> illegal content.
>
> What would the purpose of the new newsgroup be? My immediate concern is
> that it would segregate support traffic. If someone wants to know "How
> do I insert foo in an email message in Thunderbird", that post belongs
> in mozilla.support.thunderbird. People may also start using the group
> for general multimedia enquiries, like this:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite/browse_frm/thread/d2a8b6aca81f4358>
>
> If people do use it for posting things simply for others' enjoyment, is
> that still misuse?

Gerv is offering a compromise which is a good thing. The current peer
support group in MTMM by their nature will of course continue to lend a
hand in MTMM and carry on their light business in NGMM now that they
know the conditions. If someone posts something for the other's
enjoyment such as a birthday message for one of the members then so what?

--
Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion
Marketing,Staff and Forums Consultant
Netscape Communications Corporation
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Chris Ilias-2
On 12/7/07 6:28 PM, _Jay Garcia_ spoke thusly:

> On 07.12.2007 17:03, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> What would the purpose of the new newsgroup be? My immediate concern is
>> that it would segregate support traffic. If someone wants to know "How
>> do I insert foo in an email message in Thunderbird", that post belongs
>> in mozilla.support.thunderbird. People may also start using the group
>> for general multimedia enquiries, like this:
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite/browse_frm/thread/d2a8b6aca81f4358>
>>
>> If people do use it for posting things simply for others' enjoyment, is
>> that still misuse?
>
> Gerv is offering a compromise which is a good thing. The current peer
> support group in MTMM by their nature will of course continue to lend a
> hand in MTMM and carry on their light business in NGMM now that they
> know the conditions. If someone posts something for the other's
> enjoyment such as a birthday message for one of the members then so what?

What would the purpose of the group be?

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

squaredancer
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
On 07.12.2007 17:24, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Gervase
Markham to generate the following:? :

> Thank you to Jay and Leo for patiently explaining the situation. A bit
> of reasoned argument is "as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon that
> falls on the mountains of Zion" (Psalm 133) compared to the ranting
> that's been going on in here of late. In fact, all of Psalm 133 would
> make good reading for everyone involved in this discussion:
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20133;&version=51;
>
> I maintain that mozilla.test.multimedia needs to be used for its proper
> purpose. I would generally maintain that Mozilla resources should be
> used for purposes connected with the Mozilla project. But I also
> understand that due to some misunderstandings we appear to have
> inherited a mostly-unconnected community who have been living in one of
> our newsgroups for two years now.
>
> So, if it turns out that moving back to the secnews server is not
> possible or desirable, I am willing to look into the possibility of
> creating a "mozilla.general.multimedia" group (or perhaps you might take
> the opportunity to choose a better name?) as a new home for this
> community. Please discuss this amongst yourselves and let me know if
> you'd like me to do this.
>
> The group may be required to be moderated by Giganews; if that's true,
> the community can choose a rubber-stamp moderator as long as they agree
> to abide by whatever rules Giganews put in place, and not permit any
> illegal content.
>
> Gerv
>  

JoeS is doing a *VERY GOOD JOB* so maybe you could ask him if he would
care to continue...  as to Chris I's participation... you know my
standpoint ?? No!

reg
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A way forward?

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
On 07.12.2007 17:37, Chris Ilias wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 12/7/07 6:28 PM, _Jay Garcia_ spoke thusly:
>> On 07.12.2007 17:03, Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> What would the purpose of the new newsgroup be? My immediate concern is
>>> that it would segregate support traffic. If someone wants to know "How
>>> do I insert foo in an email message in Thunderbird", that post belongs
>>> in mozilla.support.thunderbird. People may also start using the group
>>> for general multimedia enquiries, like this:
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite/browse_frm/thread/d2a8b6aca81f4358>
>>>
>>> If people do use it for posting things simply for others' enjoyment, is
>>> that still misuse?
>>
>> Gerv is offering a compromise which is a good thing. The current peer
>> support group in MTMM by their nature will of course continue to lend a
>> hand in MTMM and carry on their light business in NGMM now that they
>> know the conditions. If someone posts something for the other's
>> enjoyment such as a birthday message for one of the members then so what?
>
> What would the purpose of the group be?
>

To carry on in the tradition of NTMM. I thought this was already made
quite apparent. MTMM will be the focal point of posting the actual
binaries and such and MGMM will be the meeting place of the community.

Better than me explaining it, let some of the present members do that.

--
Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion
Marketing,Staff and Forums Consultant
Netscape Communications Corporation
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/general
1234 ... 14